A House Divided Nut Kicking
June 26, 2006
We have had a situation and want wanted honest advice. Honestly. (got the advice - see below for the update)
Dylan came home from school today and told me that the kid who ‘thinks he knows it all,’ is ‘really annoying’ and ‘called me an idiot,’ (3 weeks ago) got what he deserved today. Turns out MY son, kicked this boy in the nuts and ran away, right after school, before they boarded the buses. He did not look back to see if the kid was okay, and I’m NOT impressed with my son’s behaviour in the least.
I have always felt that you never hit someone unless it is in self defence, or if you’re trying to help someone who is clearly being bullied/abused.
I called Daren and he is ready to come home and give Dylan a big ‘atta boy,’ for standing up to this kid, despite the fact this child has never laid so much as a finger on Dylan.
Before I spoke with Daren, I wrote an assignment for Dylan, and he was to answer 4 questions relating to the incident. He also has been instructed to apologize tomorrow. If the other kid tells the teacher/principal, Dylan could be suspended. I would totally support any decision the school makes. When Dylan was choked on a school bus at the beginning of the year, I was happy to hear the student involved was suspended and did learn a lesson at school, and at home. He was very remorseful and I doubt he will ever do anything like this again.
Daren felt the same way about the choking incident as I did. But now that the tables are turned, I’m afraid he is going to come home tonight and undo the lesson I was trying to teach Dylan.
I NEED INPUT. Obviously we have to be on the same page, and my plan is to drive Dylan to school, have him apologize before he is even called to the office and make him accountable. Too many parents aren’t taking this approach of accountability and I want my child to grow up to make good choices, and also handle the consequences when he makes bad choices.
What would you do? Am I pushing it too far to make him apologize first thing tomorrow with his Mommy standing over him?
UPDATE: First off, thank you to all the commenters! You guys made me feel so much better.
Daren and I stayed on the same page and after speaking to Dylan about everything, it worked out that he will go to school tomorrow without me. Whether or not the other boy has told on Dylan, he is to apologize to the boy first thing. I told him to expect a few senarios: like the boy retaliating (yikes!); the principal calling Dylan to the office, or the boy accepting his apology and both boys moving on.
I helped him think of ways to deal with each of these possibilities, and that if he were to get suspended, not only would Daren and I stand behind the school’s decision, Dylan would be required to do school work for the length of his suspension. I made it clear that we were disappointed in his violent act, but that we were proud of him for telling us what happened, and he told me he was happy that he came to me.
For those that were curious, the assignment was 4 questions on a piece of paper, that he had to answer, in writing. Here are his answers:
How do you think your behaviour made (the other boy) feel?
Sore and sad.
Why did you kick (the other boy?)
Because he called me an idiot and he shows off to everybody.
Why was it wrong to kick (the other boy?)
Just because someone is being mean to me, doesn’t give me the right to hurt them.
Will I be violent to anyone ever again? Why or why not?
I will if it’s necessary.
(We discussed each one, especially the last one.)
Let me just say I am surprised that Dylan would do something like this. I know this kid broke one of his twistable crayons a month ago, and even though Dylan saw him do it, the kid blamed a little girl in the class. This child called Dylan an idiot 3 weeks ago, and acts like a know it all. I can see why anyone would be frustrated, but I don’t understand why Dylan chose this route. We don’t hit our dog, much less our kids. Mother’s guilt is nagging at me, that maybe I didn’t equip Dylan with negotiation skills to properly handle the situation? We had discussed the above incidents when they occured, but I didn’t realize how frustrated Dylan was getting over this boy. That will be something to work on over the summer. We touched on forgiveness tonight, but it’s obviously time to expand that topic.
June 26th, 2006 at 6:41 pm
A few years ago a coworker of mine was telling me about how some boys at school were bugging her son so she told him to “kick them in the nuts.” I was horrified. I can’t imagine endorsing that. But yet, I totally know my husband would jump on the “kick them in the nuts” bandwagon. What to do… what to do… I would like to say that I would do the exact same thing as you (except I’d probably be too scared…) - honestly - I totally believe you are doing the right thing.
June 26th, 2006 at 7:09 pm
This same thing happened to my husband when he was young. Another boy was harrassing him at school but it was for a long time. This kid harrassed my husband for the entire school year. He was a bully. Well, my husband snapped and kicked him in the nuts. The school did nothing. They called the mother of the other boy in and said ‘your kid is a bully. This was bound to happen’. My husband never did it again. He had simply had enough of the other kid bullying him.
I would say if this other kid hasn’t been truly bullying your son for a long enough time for your child to have been unable to think of another way to react, then he should apologize. If this has been going on for so long that he was just so frustrated and couldn’t take it anymore, then I would have a talk with the school about the other boy. Of course, you want to make sure that your son knows that it’s not okay to react physically but there are times when you get to your breaking point.
June 26th, 2006 at 7:29 pm
You’re completely in the right here, karen! I’m sure by now Daren knows that too. I mean, it wasn’t even an uppercut, right? A boot to the nuts? Yikes!
I think your way of handling it was brilliant, by the way. The assignment? SO stealing that!!!
June 26th, 2006 at 8:38 pm
i think you’re totally right, depending on the severity of what the other kid was doing. if he was being harder on your little guy than you know about, i might be more sympathetic (while still acknowledging nut-kicking is not the way to handle things). maybe the school could shed some light on what the other kid’s history is in re bullying, etc.
what were the questions in the assignment? i’m dying to know!
June 26th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
Absolutely not, I think you are doing the right thing. A “kick to the nuts” can be more serious than a slap, pinch or punch. I agree with Zookeeper… I’m so stealing that assignment thing!
PS, good to find your blog. I’ve bookmarked it.
June 26th, 2006 at 9:18 pm
I am a dad and I would handle exactly the way you are suggesting. It doesn’t matter if it was a kick in the nuts or ass, a slap or a punch … a violent act is unnecessary and wrong. No matter how much the other child was bugging the boy, violence was not required.
Just my 2 cents as a dad.
June 26th, 2006 at 9:48 pm
Dylan is little - of course his negotiation skills aren’t good. Many people NEVER learn good negotiation skills. He kicked out of frustration, because that was a skill he did have. He can apologize, or he can lie about apologizing…I’m not saying he will…but at that age, I would have.
June 26th, 2006 at 10:48 pm
First, you handled things well and second, don’t beat yourself up because you don’t think you’ve equipped Dylan with enough negotiation skills…he’s little, only 7, so he’s got alot of learning and life experiences ahead yet. He’ll get it in time, don’t worry. And how do I know this? Because he’s got two kick ass (no pun intended I swear…lol) parents who will help guide him through his growing years and beyond.
June 27th, 2006 at 8:15 am
I totally agree with Sassy. Please don’t beat yourself up. You are Daren are great parents and Dylan is still very young. Although I’m sure that he knows it was wrong, but he had just had enough and didn’t know what else to do.
I’m sure that he will apologize and I hope that he learned this valuable lesson. Who knows, maybe they will become really good friends. I have seen it happen before.
Let us know what happens.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:27 am
Hi Karen,
As a teacher I am so happy with your approach. It would have been easy for you to see his behaviour as fair retaliation. As well, you had him reflect on his behaviour. Wow ! You’re great !
I was sad to see that you feel guilty. I’m not sure how old Dylan is, but I believe under ten ? Don’t we learn my making mistakes ? Although he has never seen violence in your home, he has seen it at school and maybe it’s just a part of all of us. Not that I had doubts before, but I think you are a great parent. I would like you to have more kids and then send them to my class because my life would be easier.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:37 am
gawd, this is why I don’t have kids. It’s too tough! I’d probably tell my kid to fight back to anyone who bullied him — and I’ll tell you why. I got bullied EVERY DAY in middle school. My life was torture. I wanted to kill myself. But you know what? I NEVER fought back, even once. And I’ve regretted it my entire life. If I had a kid I’d tell him/her to make sure nobody walks all over them like they did to me.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:43 am
P.S. your blog in now working in IE7! yay!
June 27th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
Dylan is in martial arts, isn’t he? I would talk to his instructor and get his/her opinion on how to behave in that situation. Your martial arts instructor should have good advice and guidance. (And, if you don’t like the answer you get, you know it’s time to find a new martial arts school!)
Our son was being jumped by boys in the neighborhood and he wouldn’t fight back. I asked his instructor to help us encourage him to stand up for himself. It worked. The next time our son was attacked by two boys, he defended himself. He didn’t go overboard, just used his training. They leave him alone now.
Now, I don’t advocate violence and Dylan wasn’t in the right in this case. I do believe we need to teach our kids it IS okay to fight back sometimes, that their bodies are theirs and they have choices and can defend themselves.
June 27th, 2006 at 3:35 pm
both me and hubs were bugged during school. when we had kids we decided this was not something we wanted for our boys. our oldes is going into grade 2 next fall, and has had to deal with some bullying. he has been told ” done EVER start the fight, but feel free to finish it” no one should go looking for violence, but they for damn sure should not just stand there and get beat either!
June 27th, 2006 at 10:33 pm
this is like good mothering and shit. aren’t you supposed to be ignoring your kids and reading blogs?
Seriously, you did an awesome job and the kid is an awesome kid. He’s gonna grow up right and your the reason why.
Although I’m still glad they gave you the good genes.
June 27th, 2006 at 10:53 pm
Karen: You did great! Open communication is very important. You asking Dylan the questions and him answering on paper and then discussing it, was fabulous! I too would have wanted to go to the school with him and make him apologize. BUT that would only satisfy US as mom’s, and maybe embarrassed our sons. Letting him go, and apologizing with understanding the how’s and why’s is very big of him. I too believe this is out of character for Dylan, but hey man, enough is enough…his buttons were pushed and he did what he felt at the time was right. It was the wrong approach, but at 8, what is the right approach, when you’re feelings are hurt, and you have had enough crap! I also believe that this is an isolated situation. I wouldn’t sweat it too much. Looks like the situation has been dealt with, now we must carry on. Great job in dealing with it Karen, great job in understanding your emotions Dylan.
June 27th, 2006 at 10:54 pm
Maybe I should clarify the fact that this kid wasn’t picking on Dylan so much as he was annoying the shit out of him. He didn’t deserve to get kicked in the nuts though. Think Carleton on Fresh Prince of Bel Air.
Thanks for all the awesome comments guys….Dylan apologized this morning and the other boy said simply, “I forgive you.”
It’s done and over with. Summer vacation starts on Thursday. OH YAY - less blog reading time.
June 27th, 2006 at 11:06 pm
just reading the update and i’m glad it all worked out. it totally reminded me of an incident when i was 9 — there was this girl who was totally out of control and had all sorts of emotional problems and we (the rest of the class) were supposed to be understanding and supportive etc.
One day we were all playing volleyball in gym and she was being mean to another kid and i tried to stop her and she hit me and i was so freaked out i bit her. (and was immediately horrified. so out of character.)
i am TOTALLY the talk-it-out, nonconfrontational, shy, bookish type, and i just didn’t know how to deal with someone actually being unreasonable with me. so that’s a vote for ‘undeveloped coping skills’ and definitely another reason you shouldn’t feel guilty about dylan’s behavior.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:03 am
:hysterical laughter:
*cough*
Sorry.
June 28th, 2006 at 3:05 am
Sorry, I just needed a laugh.
Ex troubles. I’ll blog about it later.
June 28th, 2006 at 6:50 am
You’re a good mom and you did the right thing. I love the questions. We did a lot of that growing up and I do it with my girls now. I hope it went smoothly for Dylan at school and that this is all behind you now.
June 28th, 2006 at 8:51 am
I liked his answer to the last question and let me explain why. It was a very honest answer. It shows his independence (a great quality to have) and his willingness to stand up for himself even if it conflicts with what you, as an adult, may think is right. The ability to stand up for ourselves, think for ourselves is so very important and you can’t really start to learn it too young. Of course, your job is to still teach temperance and judgement but you still want them to think on their own too.
June 28th, 2006 at 12:11 pm
I think you responded to the situation very well. I like to Hope I could do the same.
I esp like that he has your permission to stand up for himself if a bullying or threatening situation arises.
I try so hard to get my older girl to stand up for herself, but she is very timid when confronted. I sometime think it might be because we tried to do the ‘right’ thing too many times, as opposed to making a stand.
Cograts on a job well done. Anne
June 28th, 2006 at 12:42 pm
You did good.
It’s such a fine line to teach them between sticking up for yourself, and letting yourself be bullied. I try to teach daughter to use her words - make them feel like crap without laying a finger on anybody. She’s coming along quite nicely. LOL.
Seriously though, good job hon.
June 28th, 2006 at 1:38 pm
Having 3 kids myself Karen, I deal with this issue on a constant basis.
It’s either they are fighting with each other or a neighborhood kid.
I tell my kids to NEVER put their hands on another child. They should always give the other person a warning, if they don’t listen to it and continue to abuse them (physically) then by all means..punch the punk right in the nose!
When my middle daughter was around 10 a boy in the neighborhood was always trying to touch her inappropriately, she told him to stop on several occasions but since he was always in the company of another boy would was a bit older they both just got a kick out of it.
Then one day my daughter had enough and gave the boy a real nice shiner…
He deserved it..
June 29th, 2006 at 11:06 am
Hiya Trolly (I like that better than Karen),
On Dawns blog you asked about my “It’s the American thing to do” comment.
It was that joke or “If he doesn’t kick kids in the nads the terrorist win!”
Being an guy, who has nads, I don’t condone nut kicking, but sometimes “Well YOU’RE a big fat doodie head!” just doesn’t work. I’m sure you’re a good mom and can teach him to not just lash out when people piss him off (of course you’ll use mommie language and not say piss).
Maybe you need to get your kid into soccer or tell him how much money kickers make in the NFL.
You know….use his powers for good instead of evil.
June 29th, 2006 at 7:09 pm
i’m a guy… i was a child until quite recently
heres my 2cents worth:
as an adult u shouldn’t respond with force - i totally agree. kids’ (esp. boys) world works completely different. if ur husband is encouraging what ur son did, he has a really strong reason for that. by what he did, ur son has gained respect (context:godfather). it was excessive to kick the nuts… sure… he should have just bitch slapped the other boy. its a bitch-slap or be-bitch-slapped world out there for the boys
i know i will be mistaken for saying everything above (& below)… we (=guys) have a problem with expressing to women what we think. we always did. but we know exactly whats happening in that boy’s world. it is not a “hello kitty”, “barbie & ken” girl’s world. its a world with battle tanks and fire trucks.
u can relax. ur son will be just fine. u can advice him based on whether u want him on the football team or in the ballad class…